Sep 11, 2025

How Multidisciplinary Mental Health Clinics Are Transforming Care in the Netherlands

Sandy Newes
Category: Podcasts
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 Rutger Engels

Rutger Engels is the Co-founder and Director of Senz, a treatment center for anxiety and depression in the Netherlands. He is also a Professor of Developmental Psychopathology at Erasmus University Rotterdam, where his research centers on early substance use, depression, and anxiety in youth. Previously, Rutger served as CEO of the Trimbos Institute, which is the Netherlands’ national mental health and addiction institute.

Shiva Thorsell is the Co-founder and Clinical Psychologist at Senz. With over 25 years of experience in specialized mental healthcare, she serves as a senior instructor and supervisor in the postgraduate training of health psychologists. Shiva is skilled in therapeutic approaches, including Sensorimotor Psychotherapy (SP), Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy (KAP), body-oriented mentalizing, and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT).

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Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

  • [4:07] Shiva Thorsell reflects on her journey into psychedelic psychotherapy
  • [5:37] Rutger Engels’ shift from prevention programs to exploring psychedelics as a treatment facilitator
  • [7:53] Senz’s unique value proposition, including its trauma-informed approach
  • [14:03] Rutger introduces a modular treatment model that tailors therapy combinations to fit clients’ needs
  • [16:45] The role of structured group therapy in skill building and attachment-focused healing
  • [18:44] How the Dutch social healthcare system supports access to innovative treatments at Senz
  • [22:16] Ketamine-assisted psychotherapy research and regulatory considerations
  • [33:55] The value of KAP in traditional therapeutic techniques
  • [41:35] Rutger and Shiva’s vision for expanding research, training, and collaboration in psychedelic psychotherapy

In this episode…

In the evolving field of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy, new treatments and models of care are challenging traditional approaches to mental health. How can an intensive, multidisciplinary method provide lasting breakthroughs for people struggling with depression, trauma, and anxiety?

Mental health researcher Rutger Engels and clinical psychologist Shiva Thorsell advocate for a combination of evidence-based methods and innovative practices like ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. They maintain that individualized, modular treatment programs allow them to tailor care for each client. Rutger and Shiva also emphasize intensive approaches, structured group therapy, and lifestyle interventions like running as key tools for deep and lasting change. These research-driven, yet compassionate treatment models can open new pathways to recovery. 

In this episode of Living Medicine, Dr. Sandy Newes sits down with Rutger Engels and Shiva Thorsell, Co-founders of Senz, to talk about building a multidisciplinary clinic that integrates psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy. They discuss the importance of individualized modular treatments, how intensive programs foster deeper healing, and how to integrate ketamine-assisted psychotherapy responsibly. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments:

  • “Maybe it started with growing up with hippie parents. I’m not sure, but it did.”
  • “I thought, Hmm, this is something I want to know more about and explore.”
  • “We think it’s very important you know where you are and how the environment is.”
  • “So basically, we work with modules like Lego pieces that we put together for treatment.”
  • “It is time-consuming and intensive, and that’s also [a] deliberate choice, because we think that works.”

Action Steps:

  1. Adopt a modular approach to treatment: Using flexible “building blocks” of therapy allows clinicians to tailor care to each client’s needs. This ensures treatments are individualized rather than bound by rigid, one-size-fits-all protocols.
  2. Integrate lifestyle interventions into mental health care: Activities like running therapy can significantly boost mood and resilience. Incorporating physical movement alongside psychotherapy supports whole-person healing and has strong evidence for depression treatment.
  3. Hold regular multidisciplinary team meetings: Coordinated communication between therapists ensures continuity of care across different modalities. This helps clients experience seamless, holistic support and prevents gaps between treatments.
  4. Prioritize intensive formats for complex cases: Offering immersive, multiday therapy instead of once-a-week sessions provides sustained engagement and deeper breakthroughs. This intensity can be especially effective for treatment-resistant depression and trauma recovery.
  5. Combine clinical practice with research: Embedding research into daily treatment builds an evidence base while improving patient outcomes. Data-driven insights ensure that innovative therapies like ketamine-assisted psychotherapy remain safe, effective, and scalable.

Sponsor for this episode…

This episode is brought to you by the Living Medicine Institute.

LMI is a training, resource, and membership program educating providers about the legal and safe use of psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy.

To learn more or participate, visit https://livingmedicineinstitute.com.

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